While I do not claim to know everything about the pick up artists movement, I think it is fair to say that I have some knowledge. During the last years, I have read many books of pick up artists, but also about dating and such, and I also studied much material available online.
I also tried out some of their advice, with success, if you will. I am not a womanizer or anything, and I do not think that everything they say is the truth. But I do respect them for what they offer, namely, all in all, genuine help in dating matters, without much talking about the bush, so to say.
See, many people have criticized the pick up artist movement in the past, and many continue to do so. Yet, many of them lack the understanding of what is being told by these "weirdos", which are not only comprised of men, but also of women. Also many people do not understand that there are different types of pick-up advice. And that it might be helpful.
For example, what does a woman tell you if you would ask her what kind of guy she wants? Well, many, or most of them say (and some women write books about this): We want a guy that is nice. A friendly person, maybe even a gentleman, somebody who cares.
But I tell you that is not the truth. In the majority of the cases, this is a self-delusional story women tell themselves to cope with their internal inadequacies. Women may say things, but mean it differently; yes, it is true, that many girls are not honest. Fact of the matter is that women want a guy who is a challenge to them, who is genuinely strong and confident.
But people do not tell you this. You do not learn this at high school or in some kind of romantic Hollywood crap movie. You do not meet a teacher at university telling you this, or a professor of gender mainstreaming. It's only the "weirdos" who tell you this, the "womanizers", at times being called assholes. And I can tell you, they may lack proper brains, but they have at least one thing: experience.
So, once again, when it comes to, not to say the f-word here, to "sleeping with each other", the strong guy who does not care too much will win. The nice guy simply doesn't get f*****. How does it come to be like this in modern-day world, you say? Well, maybe dating is still dominated by some kind of ancient behavior pattern.
And this is what many brain-washed journalists, even in this case, do not want to accept. For example, they blame mass murder on pick up. As an alternative to this, you might want to read Alan Roger Currie’s statement on Examiner.com.
As far as dating from the men's perspective is concerned, too many people live in a politically correct fairy land. The funny thing is: In the real world, women just sit there and wait for the right guy. They don’t approach themselves. They just sit there and judge. So, what does this tell us about the independence of women?
And has it ever been different? And could it be different, and if so, why, when and how? Well, women have to do some self-reflection, too.
And there are strong tendencies to throw dirt on men. Look at the current you-tube hype about the video “A woman walking 10 hours in New York”. Well, I recommend to watch the parody “Princess Leia walking 10 hours in New York” right afterwards, just to illustrate some problems here.
Let’s put it that way: Hiding behind many complaints, there is aggressive self-righteousness and arrogance, as well as hypocrisy and financial interest.
This also applies to criticism directed against the men’s rights movement. While I do not support anything they say, they might indeed have a good point here and there. Certainly more so than “gender mainstreaming”, with its tendency to counter suppression of women and gays with the creation of a new artificial catch-all gender, finally amounting to a "non-gender".
(Ps: In case of general interest in somehow helpful dating advice, I recommend the work of Kezia Noble, Johnny Soporno, Sasha Daygame and Marni Kinrys.)
I could care less about political correctness, I care about ***emotional**** correctness. Intent. Actions. Words. Deeds. Misogyny. Misandry. I am not saying a PUA has to be a man, either. There are plenty of "dating experts" who coach women who are giving rather asinine advice, albeit slightly more "politically correct". I care about intention and right mind. I care about women not being dehumanized, raped, murdered. Men too. But unfortunately, and you can see this in any comments section on Youtube, there are many vociferous men who have clear issues with women and very loudly and clearly say things and state things that are beyond the pale. I don't take issue with someone like Owen Cook (RSD founder) helping a brother out. I take issue with someone like Owen Cook standing in a lecture saying he raped a stripper (this was on Youtube until very recently, apparently it's been taken down since, but I have seen this video, it's nauseating and chilling his recounting it)- and laughing while he says it to paying customers. That's what I care about. That level of malignant loathing towards women is not acceptable. Are there women who feel the same way about men? Absolutely! Is that okay? No. The men's right's movement is only as good as the men in it. Most of the men in it are not saying "hey, there's bias in the stats here, men get screwed out of things too in terms of divorce, etc"- I'm not arguing with that. I'm not arguing that there are manipulative women. I am arguing that creating a culture of mutual antipathy towards someone of the opposite sex because you are an abusive, malignant hater who wants to wreak havoc on ALL women (or men) is bad. What part of that in the article is hard to understand? Any comment on a video that a PUA leaves will be riddled with comments about what "cold, manipulative bitches" women are. Might want an attitude adjustment. Maybe women are "cold" because, well, maybe they don't like being called en masse, across the board with no distinction, "cold, manipulative bitches". Just as all men are not serial killers (duh), all women are not "cold, manipulative bitches". Okay? Are we clear here? I am not dissing dating advice. I am dissing the culture of abuse that claims it is dating advice when really it's a license to rape and abuse women.
And I know about Kezia, and I think she's doing a good job for the most part. Of course looking at the comments section, the men there for the most part say nothing about her other than how they want to rape her and that she's a "stone cold manipulative bitch" even though I think she's right about the fake "Nice guy" phenomenon that men use as an excuse/cop out to make a real connection with someone "because they don't want to be rejected". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN3_urefvk4 You can't win when you are a woman in the PUA community with the public comments section at least. Even if you are giving valuable advice. That is what misogyny is. It doesn't care about your value if you are a woman. Just look at the negative comments. It doesn't care how good her advice is. It only wants to dominate, destroy and obliterate women and their contributions. That's hate. That's bias. Thanks for commenting as well, I appreciate your words. But I am not addressing the people who see value in women and appreciate them. That's not the problem.
And PS- most men who say they are "nice guys" are not nice guys. They are fake nice guys. They are the men who don't hesitate to call a woman a "stone cold manipulative bitch" because she rejected him. They are the first ones to justify their behavior because they perceived a woman to be a threat to them or they perceived her to be "humiliating" them when in fact it might be that their personality is repugnant, they don't know who they truly are, they think that putting up a facade of being "nice" is actually being a genuinely kind person (they're not) - what they are doing is being fake, not "nice". They're being pathological.
And yes, it is true. He is really bragging about having sex with a woman against her will, while at the same calling all kinds of stuff and laughing in a way which is quite remarkable, to put it that way.
What amazes me though is that Owen Cook still seems to draw quite a few people, inspite of the criticism that he received from his friends early on, as it was mentioned in the book "The Game", and inspite of his jerky and weird behaviour. I have almost forgotten that "Tyler Durden" was still there somehow, with videos and such.
Maybe this success could even be called an achievement, were it not for the aggreessive "cure-all" marketing and the cases where people can get into trouble for what he says, apart from hurting others and themselves.
It's saddening to see that guys with good intentions may get an overdose of Owen Cook's provocative, self-centered and more or less self-delusional dating advice. With the result that they will drop into some kind of hole afterwards, maybe even a deeper hole than they were in at the beginning.
Other than that, I agree with your statements. But I would like say that the term "nice guy" usually refers to people who want to adapt to social expectations too much. They are afraid and want to be on the safe side, and stumble over their own feet.
While I do not claim to know everything about the pick up artists movement, I think it is fair to say that I have some knowledge. During the last years, I have read many books of pick up artists, but also about dating and such, and I also studied much material available online.
ReplyDeleteI also tried out some of their advice, with success, if you will. I am not a womanizer or anything, and I do not think that everything they say is the truth. But I do respect them for what they offer, namely, all in all, genuine help in dating matters, without much talking about the bush, so to say.
See, many people have criticized the pick up artist movement in the past, and many continue to do so. Yet, many of them lack the understanding of what is being told by these "weirdos", which are not only comprised of men, but also of women. Also many people do not understand that there are different types of pick-up advice. And that it might be helpful.
For example, what does a woman tell you if you would ask her what kind of guy she wants? Well, many, or most of them say (and some women write books about this): We want a guy that is nice. A friendly person, maybe even a gentleman, somebody who cares.
But I tell you that is not the truth. In the majority of the cases, this is a self-delusional story women tell themselves to cope with their internal inadequacies. Women may say things, but mean it differently; yes, it is true, that many girls are not honest. Fact of the matter is that women want a guy who is a challenge to them, who is genuinely strong and confident.
But people do not tell you this. You do not learn this at high school or in some kind of romantic Hollywood crap movie. You do not meet a teacher at university telling you this, or a professor of gender mainstreaming. It's only the "weirdos" who tell you this, the "womanizers", at times being called assholes. And I can tell you, they may lack proper brains, but they have at least one thing: experience.
So, once again, when it comes to, not to say the f-word here, to "sleeping with each other", the strong guy who does not care too much will win. The nice guy simply doesn't get f*****. How does it come to be like this in modern-day world, you say? Well, maybe dating is still dominated by some kind of ancient behavior pattern.
And this is what many brain-washed journalists, even in this case, do not want to accept. For example, they blame mass murder on pick up. As an alternative to this, you might want to read Alan Roger Currie’s statement on Examiner.com.
As far as dating from the men's perspective is concerned, too many people live in a politically correct fairy land. The funny thing is: In the real world, women just sit there and wait for the right guy. They don’t approach themselves. They just sit there and judge. So, what does this tell us about the independence of women?
And has it ever been different? And could it be different, and if so, why, when and how? Well, women have to do some self-reflection, too.
And there are strong tendencies to throw dirt on men. Look at the current you-tube hype about the video “A woman walking 10 hours in New York”. Well, I recommend to watch the parody “Princess Leia walking 10 hours in New York” right afterwards, just to illustrate some problems here.
Let’s put it that way: Hiding behind many complaints, there is aggressive self-righteousness and arrogance, as well as hypocrisy and financial interest.
This also applies to criticism directed against the men’s rights movement. While I do not support anything they say, they might indeed have a good point here and there. Certainly more so than “gender mainstreaming”, with its tendency to counter suppression of women and gays with the creation of a new artificial catch-all gender, finally amounting to a "non-gender".
(Ps: In case of general interest in somehow helpful dating advice, I recommend the work of Kezia Noble, Johnny Soporno, Sasha Daygame and Marni Kinrys.)
I could care less about political correctness, I care about ***emotional**** correctness. Intent. Actions. Words. Deeds. Misogyny. Misandry. I am not saying a PUA has to be a man, either. There are plenty of "dating experts" who coach women who are giving rather asinine advice, albeit slightly more "politically correct". I care about intention and right mind. I care about women not being dehumanized, raped, murdered. Men too. But unfortunately, and you can see this in any comments section on Youtube, there are many vociferous men who have clear issues with women and very loudly and clearly say things and state things that are beyond the pale. I don't take issue with someone like Owen Cook (RSD founder) helping a brother out. I take issue with someone like Owen Cook standing in a lecture saying he raped a stripper (this was on Youtube until very recently, apparently it's been taken down since, but I have seen this video, it's nauseating and chilling his recounting it)- and laughing while he says it to paying customers. That's what I care about. That level of malignant loathing towards women is not acceptable. Are there women who feel the same way about men? Absolutely! Is that okay? No. The men's right's movement is only as good as the men in it. Most of the men in it are not saying "hey, there's bias in the stats here, men get screwed out of things too in terms of divorce, etc"- I'm not arguing with that. I'm not arguing that there are manipulative women. I am arguing that creating a culture of mutual antipathy towards someone of the opposite sex because you are an abusive, malignant hater who wants to wreak havoc on ALL women (or men) is bad. What part of that in the article is hard to understand? Any comment on a video that a PUA leaves will be riddled with comments about what "cold, manipulative bitches" women are. Might want an attitude adjustment. Maybe women are "cold" because, well, maybe they don't like being called en masse, across the board with no distinction, "cold, manipulative bitches". Just as all men are not serial killers (duh), all women are not "cold, manipulative bitches". Okay? Are we clear here? I am not dissing dating advice. I am dissing the culture of abuse that claims it is dating advice when really it's a license to rape and abuse women.
DeleteAnd I know about Kezia, and I think she's doing a good job for the most part. Of course looking at the comments section, the men there for the most part say nothing about her other than how they want to rape her and that she's a "stone cold manipulative bitch" even though I think she's right about the fake "Nice guy" phenomenon that men use as an excuse/cop out to make a real connection with someone "because they don't want to be rejected". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN3_urefvk4 You can't win when you are a woman in the PUA community with the public comments section at least. Even if you are giving valuable advice. That is what misogyny is. It doesn't care about your value if you are a woman. Just look at the negative comments. It doesn't care how good her advice is. It only wants to dominate, destroy and obliterate women and their contributions. That's hate. That's bias. Thanks for commenting as well, I appreciate your words. But I am not addressing the people who see value in women and appreciate them. That's not the problem.
DeleteAnd PS- most men who say they are "nice guys" are not nice guys. They are fake nice guys. They are the men who don't hesitate to call a woman a "stone cold manipulative bitch" because she rejected him. They are the first ones to justify their behavior because they perceived a woman to be a threat to them or they perceived her to be "humiliating" them when in fact it might be that their personality is repugnant, they don't know who they truly are, they think that putting up a facade of being "nice" is actually being a genuinely kind person (they're not) - what they are doing is being fake, not "nice". They're being pathological.
DeleteOk, I have found the video of Owen Cook. It is embedded in this article:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.vice.com/read/this-canadian-pick-up-artist-bragged-about-forcing-sex-on-a-slut-whore-bitch-297
And yes, it is true. He is really bragging about having sex with a woman against her will, while at the same calling all kinds of stuff and laughing in a way which is quite remarkable, to put it that way.
What amazes me though is that Owen Cook still seems to draw quite a few people, inspite of the criticism that he received from his friends early on, as it was mentioned in the book "The Game", and inspite of his jerky and weird behaviour. I have almost forgotten that "Tyler Durden" was still there somehow, with videos and such.
Maybe this success could even be called an achievement, were it not for the aggreessive "cure-all" marketing and the cases where people can get into trouble for what he says, apart from hurting others and themselves.
It's saddening to see that guys with good intentions may get an overdose of Owen Cook's provocative, self-centered and more or less self-delusional dating advice. With the result that they will drop into some kind of hole afterwards, maybe even a deeper hole than they were in at the beginning.
Other than that, I agree with your statements. But I would like say that the term "nice guy" usually refers to people who want to adapt to social expectations too much. They are afraid and want to be on the safe side, and stumble over their own feet.
Owen Cook looks and acts like Dana Carvey playing a serial killer/date rapist.
ReplyDelete